In March, Trumpet Editor-In-Chief Gerald Flurry and other Trumpet staff attended a conference at Oxford, England, with lectures by a number of prominent speakers on the dangers inherent in Britain’s membership in the European Union. The following interview between British author and lecturer Adrian Hilton and Trumpet News Editor Ron Fraser is reproduced here for the benefit of our readers. Adrian Hilton is author of the bestselling book The Principality and Power of Europe, which includes in it a forword by former speaker of the House of Commons, Lord Tonypandy. We have added emphasis to portions of the interview we felt to be most important.

Trumpet: Does the average British subject appreciate the essence of what’s going on in the European Union, involving the United Kingdom, let alone the spirit of the basic pillars of his national heritage that are being affected?

Hilton: Well, no. I mean, essentially the whole project is normally propagated in the media as essentially a secular notion. It is about issues of economics, trade, and now of course monetary union. The whole concept of underlying powers, like some sort of spiritual agenda, is one that the media aren’t always open to, and increasingly in a secular society, people aren’t often aware of either.

Trumpet: Is there, to use a term you referred to there, a conscious “spiritual agenda” behind this European monolith?

Hilton: Well that’s what my thesis is of course based on. You don’t have to go so many years back to see that Europe has been in a perpetual state of war for over 2,000 years. I mean, the Holy Roman Empire was what evolved to effectively stop war. It didn’t, of course; it precipitated the two bloodiest wars that the world has ever been through, and you will see, as is being pointed out by Sir Richard Body and Norris McWhirter, that the whole German plan at the moment is simply the replacing of bombs and bullets by treaties. It is the same aggression, the same spirit, that is now at work still.

The Vatican was intrinsically involved in both world wars. It was a Vatican concordat with Hitler that effectively gave him support to do what he did, and for the Vatican to turn a blind eye to the Holocaust. These things are facts, undeniable facts in history. When the pope addresses the European Parliament, as he is free to do so, and calls for a united Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals, you begin to see—or at least any mature person must ask, what right does a perceived head of a religion have to lecture elected politicians on the agenda? The truth is, of course, that the Roman Catholics are essentially subject to his will, especially when he speaks infallably ex-cathedra. And therefore, the agenda is perceived to be spiritual. The present pope sees it as his divine right to assume the mantle of Charlemagne and be the emperor reigning over a united Europe.

Trumpet: Given that there is a spiritual agenda then behind the European movement, in order to limit that you’d think there has to be some sort of countervailing spiritual influence. But, religion, it would seem, in this country, is in a state of demise. I see where in May, I believe it is the Lutherans and the Anglicans are meeting in Canada to discuss being further drawn in under the Vatican umbrella. Where’s the resistance going to come from, in the spiritual sense?

Hilton: I wish I knew. But the answer is, of course, you’re right. The Lutherans, the Church of England, whoever—whichever church wishes to ecumenically become a part of the world church that is emerging, the compromising is done on their part, not the Vatican’s. There will be no movement in any issue of dogma, nor in the seven sacraments, because those are “infallible dogmas,” effectively. They are there and they are “immutable.”

Where’s the movement going to come from? Well, one can only hope and pray that when a nation like Britain—which has enshrined in law its own rights and liberties, certainly for the last three centuries—when the people begin to perceive that their rights and liberties have been removed (it may be 10, 20, 30 years down the line), you may begin to get such civil unrest that there is a call for withdrawal from the European Union. But it won’t be easy. And I don’t doubt that Europol may well be sent in to keep the peace, or rather enforce the peace, at a later date. And the riots that you saw on the streets objecting to the poll tax will be as nothing compared to the riots that might ensue when people wish to retain or regain their liberties and rights.

Trumpet: How do you overcome the apathy to get to that point?

Hilton: I can’t deny that to an extent you have to be subversive now. You almost have to become a renegade and form your own little guerrilla groups to attack the appalling propaganda that is being permeated through society. I also wish to emphasize that we have the strongest weapon of all, I believe, on our side, and that is truth. I don’t want to underestimate the power of truth. Whereas propaganda may be full of lies, insidious lies, and very attractive lies, to the mass of the population, ultimately it is the sword of the spirit of truth that I believe ultimately will prevail. Yes, there’s a lot of darkness to go through, a lot of warfare to engage in, and the airwaves may well ultimately be closed to us under European law, if we are perceived to be xenophobic, and inciting people to riot or causing disturbances of the peace, but let us not forget, it was the first Christians in Ephesus who were accused of inciting riots and disturbing the peace. And they were arrested on those grounds. It wasn’t their faith that was at issue. It was the fact that they were in contravention of a civil law, that is the maintenance of the peace.

One might hope, and indeed, it’s a possibility, that the more people speak out against these issues publicly, even if it’s at Hyde Park corner and not on national television or radio, an arrest would engender a lot of publicity, a trial would engender even more, an imprisonment would be almost God’s gift for having the issue raised to an even higher court.

I mean, it wasn’t so many months ago that a judge in England ruled—when one person was arrested, I think it was in Bradford, for preaching the gospel. He was arrested because Muslims had complained, and of course there was a disturbance of the peace—he was arrested. And a judge said, there is no point in having freedom of speech if you cannot be irritating, if you can’t be offensive. There is no point having it enshrined in your constitutions and law if it can’t give voice to those sorts of people. So at the moment, the judiciary at least is aware of the fact that we have the rights to voice the opinion.

Trumpet: You mentioned that you have truth on your side. A famous Roman, as he washed his hands, asked the question, “What is truth?” And so you have a great propaganda machine on one side, giving their version of truth, and you have struggling individual entities over here, that aren’t, as one commentator mentioned, united as one body. They are disparate in a sense, but united in their own cause. Again, there has to be a mechanism to get the “truth” across.

Hilton: Well maybe it’s a lot of faith. It was, after all, one little pebble of David’s that felled Goliath. I mean, that may sound simplistic, and some may laugh at it. It is, I think, an historic fact, that little individuals, insignificant men, have formed groups that became whole movements…. You have to go back a few decades, if not centuries, to find examples of it, but there are examples of it….

There are swaths of our written constitution that, if repealed, explicitly would be seismic in their shift. The media would have to report upon it. There would have to be referenda asking the people on very profound issues whether they wished it to happen. That’s why the agenda is subversive, it is hidden, concealed, secret, because that’s the only way they can achieve their ends in a nation.

Trumpet: You mentioned it could take perhaps up to 30 years for the groundswell of public opinion to move against what’s happening in the relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union.

Hilton: It depends to what extent the citizens of the United Kingdom wish to retain their common law rights, in essence. It is going to become more evident when people realize that Magna Carta has been ditched and people’s rights to trial by jury have been eroded, essentially, under the corpus jurus [collective or comprehensive body of all the laws of a nation or state] proposals of the European courts, Commission and Parliament. These things aren’t realized immediately, that is true, but I don’t give up all hope.

Let’s face it—the European Union wouldn’t achieve its aims if everything came in one big fell swoop. If we had been told back in 1975 that our membership of the European Economic Community demands a single currency, we would have voted no…. Now of course, Ted Heath has openly said—our prime minister then—has openly said that it was very much on the cards, and he was aware of it. Only now can it be revealed that he was aware of it, because we were being conditioned, slowly, to accept such a move. In speaking in terms of time frames, yes, time is against us, but that’s because institutions like the Vatican aren’t subject to democratic cycles of four or five years. They can think in terms of centuries, and set the agendas, for centuries.

Trumpet: We look out here at this group assembled today, and I imagine the mean age may well have been 60.

Hilton: Yes.

Trumpet: It would appear then, that if this group is representative of other similar groups in the country, then you face the prospect of concern dying out, assuming that the up-and-coming generation is not being educated to be concerned about these things. The heritage is being lost. It does sound rather hopeless.

Hilton: Yes, I have to sadly, regretfully, agree with you. It appears hopeless. But if oaks are to grow from acorns, it isn’t impossible that a small movement, albeit a divided one, operating in all sorts of spheres individually, can sufficiently undermine what is being constructed, because what is being constructed is being constructed on sand. When you find the Maastricht treaty is law in Europe against its own clauses, you begin to see and understand that it doesn’t take much of a challenge in a court, ultimately, to bring the whole edifice down. It’s a theoretical power, at the moment, but it’s a very real prospect.

I also am not going to deny the spiritual power of prayer. We may have truth on our side, but I don’t believe the European Union, as it is evolving, is a move of God, as the pope does, and as many others do. If it is a move of God, then there’s no point in opposing it; it will happen. However, wherever there is a movement of God, a genuine one, the truth, ultimately, will win out. It does look bleak, especially with our children in this nation being systematically programmed with propaganda, all pro-Europe, all pro-the Roman Catholic Church—it looks very bleak. But all it takes is one teacher, one member of parliament, one education minister, to bring this to the attention of a higher power, to have the whole thing exposed. It’s possible.

Trumpet: What would be your most real and immediate concern about the European Union, in respect to its relationship with the United Kingdom?

Hilton: My most immediate concern, I would think, is the moral effect it is having on the nation. I mean, there is an awareness that the whole thing, as I’ve said, is economically driven. It’s a monetary issue. That’s what the media make of it. The spiritual powers are more aware of the fact—the Roman Catholic Church—more aware of the fact that there is an underlying agenda to that.

It is when there are little agreements in the European Parliament, definitions of things like sects, that you begin to perceive that religious liberty, civil liberty, is going, bit by bit, but we are not being made aware of it. That’s of immense concern: When people find out, a decade or so down the line, it’s gone, it’s too late to question your mep [member of the European Parliament] or write to the European Commission to object, because it’s already been dealt with and gone. When these things are given away, they’re called Acqui Communitaire, they are community acquisitions, and they don’t ever come back. There is no mechanism for them to come back. The undermining of our democratic rights, being the mother of parliaments here, is of immense concern. But, the media go on propagating the lie that it’s our members of parliament whom we can elect or reject, and they are the lawmakers. It’s become a façade.

The reason Tony Blair has moved so far to the right and John Major moved so far to the left is because they all are subject to this malaise of a Third Way, emanating out of Brussels. Tony Blair didn’t democratically and freely decide to stick to conservative spending principles when he came to power. He knew, in order to meet the criteria for the single currency imposed on us by Maastricht, he had no choice but to do that. And yet the British people are told that if we elect Tony Blair, we have a different agenda. Well then they find out they haven’t. And in fact, the Labor Party in this country has lost its ground-root votes now, because they have perceived that actually it’s not much different to John Major’s conservative government at all, because democracy is actually gone. And it’s of immense concern to me, when the adages of issues like “no taxation without representation” are gone, and people aren’t yet aware of it.

Trumpet: Well, getting back to the principle thrust of your book and the point you made earlier here, to sum up, it would seem that, ultimately, from all angles, at its grass roots it’s a spiritual problem, in that obviously there’s a spiritual movement driving the European Union, and therefore that has to be counteracted with a more than equal and opposite spiritual effect. Would you care to comment on that?

Hilton: Well…the love of money is the root of all evil. But when you have a parliament that is effectively a commission and a structure on monetary union and economic issues, and the Vatican, which is by all reports the wealthiest institution on earth, and it is vastly so, it’s all constructed on the love of money. It therefore rests on what is the root of all evil. Only an exposition of the truth can combat that. And that will not be, I don’t believe, the established Church of England, because it is now hopelessly compromised. It will be these little subversive groups, or, as they are found in the book of Acts, when they were first called Christians, this sect, this cult, that will ultimately, maybe, raise the spiritual temperature and open people’s eyes to truth.